and it's variations check out Gary Cunningham's Bayonet Points # 8 right here Bayo Points 8 In fact, I believe that learning how to date a ka-bar knife requires more attention to detail and a couple of more moving parts than when we were dealing with the Kissing Crane knives. If you have a collector around, check with them to see if they had kept such catalogs. The knife was originally designed in 1957 as a joint issue between the Navy Weapons Bureau and the Marbles Arms Company. Thank you, this is a very informative treatise on this knife. Production date date 3/25/1943. Moreover, the requirement for having a standard survival knife for pilots and aircrews across the DoD was due to economic considerations and budgeting constraints at the time which fostered standardization across the military services. S-6708 RW marked Guardless fish knife stamped Krome Plate, Boy Scout Knife, Camillus Manufacturer, Whittler's Knife, used, blades in great condition but shank shows wear (CSE06) Please refer to the pictures for condition grading. Glen, The intended use of the knife is for pilots as required in survival situations. If you dont go to knife shows, you might also have some luck with veteran knife collectors in your locale. It is also suspected that knife makers will begin to find ways to improve the knife and manufacture their versions of the knife similar to what knife companies are doing with other legacy knife designs. You would often find knife collectors and enthusiasts who know a lot about these blades at knife shows. Entertaining and informing. Any review of World War II military fixed blades must include several examples of Western knives. Some extremely valid points! Finally Ive found something which helped me. We were allowed to keep them when dicharged. Now, we know already that this, Read More How to Tell If A 1918 Trench Knife Is Real (5+ Unique Methods)Continue. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. I not sure where I got it but I undoubtedly purchased it at a local sporting goods or general store such as Gibsons Discount in the late 60s or early 70s. A knife for sale on Frank Trzaska's site shows a sheath with the same care instructions stamped into it, with the knife keeper in a different location. The grip will be made of leather in compliance with Federal Standard KK-L-165. The M3 trench knife or M3 fighting knife was an American military combat knife first issued in March 1943. The Air Force Survival Knife is an excellent knife. This blog was how do you say it? For a knife that has been around for more than 120 years now, you also know that it would have changed hands a lot of times. My friend and I were just talking about this specific subject, she actually is normally attempting to prove me completely wrong! Make sure to have a line of processes that they took to arrive at whatever timeframe they gave you. scabbard marked with the Eagle, Globe and Anchor is a current reproduction The Camillus S1765P USAF Utility Knife Tobias Gibson 7.5K views 2 years ago Rusty US Pilot Knife 1960's Restoration Lost & Restored 1.2M views 1 year ago Five US Military Pocket Knives from. If you happen to have, Read More How to Date A Case Kodiak Knife by Yourself (Expert Advice)Continue, Klein knives are clear vintages, and theyre one of those knives that went to the war. Thank you. During the war, they produced over 17 million knives of various type and spec for the military, more than any other knife maker. Well Camillus didn't start making these knives with this marking until 1974 so The blade is very sharp but has surface deterioration and the guard seems rather dull. The earliest Camillus factory experimental 6 inch Jet Pilot I have a Valor #998 Japan Jet Pilot Knife utilized in Vietnam given to my uncle, who gave it to me. Adolph Kastor, the founder of the Camillus cutlery company, came to the U.S.A at the age of 14. by glennbad Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:48 am, Post As late as the 80s and 90s, Japanese made copies of the MK2 KABAR and the Air Force Survival Knife were sold in exchanges around the globe. The topic got side tracked here a little bit with the USAAC hunting knives, those with the fuller blade. Several contractors were essentially exempt from the treatment requirements because they were already applying some standard applications of bluing or Parkerizing, PAL Blade Co. for example. In 1957, the Marble-Arms Corporation submitted to the U.S. government a design based on their Ideal Hunting Knife design. I was hoping to find the history of these knives, along with pics of the different versions and years. The bolt has a chip near the center so maybe it was well used as a hammer. The current edition of this document is Aerospace Standard SAE-AS-8662. The blade design is different then the Folding Knives from Camillus Cutlery Folding Knives Handle Color Black Select from a variety of quality Camillus and Western folding knife styles and folding knives that include liner locks, lock backs and frame locks. For the next 27 years it was in my Squad car or on my SWAT belt. Sears Roebucks in 9/26/1941. of Tom Williams, Camillus factory historian, I have assembled the The same is true for family businesses that have been selling knives for generations as they tend to have such literature lying around. blade with S numbers. In June of '60, the contract was changed to requiring a peened pommel (as was used on all later production). I have not sactroop- Just noticed the lower Camillus above the stamped sheath has a very well defined, scooped out fuller. Camillus 1996 Combination Folding Knife USN $24.99 1 bid $5.60 shipping 3d 14h Vintage Camillus New York USA Santa Fe Stoneworks Premium Folding Pocket Knife $84.99 Was: $99.99 or Best Offer SPONSORED Vintage 4 Blade CAMILLUS 1981 USA Military Survival Pocket Knife - SKU 1617 After camillus used up their remaining supply of dated pommels Camillus started using the tang stamping again on the blades. It is knives like these that make some people on the outside question why Case knives are so expensive when they are just a great value for their money. Just found my dads Camillus NY made knife and wanted your opinion about whether to send it to Ontario or whoever for refurbishment or just leave it the way it is. Made to cut overhead upside PS If you buy the knife today, the seller might include a newer sheath just to promote better knife safety for you. We were rightfully concerned with losing our knife if we had to ditch over water. These knives should be professionally serviced by a The Camillus knives went to the war (WWI & WWII), was handcrafted for some presidents, and lived more than 100 years before the company shut down. Contact the Ontario Knife Company. Keen Kutter etched in blade and tang marked Sharpleigh / With areas like Germany, Italy, China, and the rest of the world getting the praises for coming up with truly timeless knives, the USA takes the glory for this one. I will highly recommend this site! where possible. An unmarked prototype hunter with Stagged Rosewood and This is the early AAC Like it was with dating kissing crane knives, establishing the era that a Ka-bar knife came from can be a bit challenging. Heres a link to Frank Trzaska's Note on the subject. Thick blade and two piece rivets were replaced with a thinner I was issued an Ontario Pilot Survival Knife 6-89 in February 1991 during my deployment to Desert Storm and has the same measurements as the 499. I have a one of the knives that came out of a survival kit. The tang stamp on this knife is post Government contract era. Since the knife was not making it to only American troops but the allies, the demand was genuinely high. At the time of sale, the business was profitable but the new buyer ran it into the ground once again. Western made two: one with a 6-inch blade, the G46-6, and one with a 5-inch blade, the G46-5. - Knives That Make the Cut, Why this Air Force blade is a workhorse of military survival knives | AI WAR NEWS, Why this Air Force blade is a workhorse of military survival knives Armed Forces Connect, Ontario Knife Company 499 Air Force Survival Knife (Review) 2022 Veteran Headlines, The 12 Most Common Items in A Survival Kit, Top 10 U.S. Military Gear For Backpackers. I appreciate you writing this post and the rest of the site is very good. The journey of this iconic knife has been exciting to discover. Just looks cute. There won't be any pommel markings on this one. The serrated spine on this knife is part of the functional requirements for this knife. Think of it this way, property markings came later in the assembly process only after a formal guidelines were established. Above we feature the Camillus USMC reproduction. The second question that arises concerning some of the features of this knife is the purpose of the two holes in the blade guard. large bakelite pommel and multiple spacers. Its width is 21.8mm (21.8mm) and thickness is 4.5mm (4.5mm). http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/295814-5-inch-hunting-and-sheath-knives/?hl=%2Bpilots+%2Bknife&do=findComment&comment=2377348, http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/111421-odd-camillus-usn-mark-1/?hl=%2Bpilots+%2Bknife&do=findComment&comment=830644, http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/200448-questions-on-a-bright-blade-camillus-mark-1/. If you happen to have, Read More How to Date A Case Kodiak Knife by Yourself (Expert Advice)Continue, If you have spent some time here before, then we have dated some pretty amazing knives together. We see this one constantly on sale as a "Vietnam business. MK2 on the other. Knife Center.com has them in stock. Any information you could provide would be greatly appreciated. is the only one that survived the Marines. I have three of these babies from my flying days with the U. S. Navy. Can you say more about how Ontario played a role in the Survival Knifes evolution ? Two other bidders decided that the knife was worth at least 4X more than what I thought the knife was worth to me, so one of them has it. I just bought this knife from Ontario Knife Company. What are the unique features of the Air Force Survival Knife, as outlined in the U.S. Government specifications? That latest acquisition also had a sheath lacking the metal back and tip of the sheath, but appears original in all respects. Here are some links to other threads touching on this subject. That is surely a lot of information to keep track of. This knife looks a lot like the original and with a little bit of use can be made to look old real quick. bone and 1466 dozen made in stagged Rosewood. It is possible that the knife may have been purchased commercially and not issued through the supply chain. The tip of the sheath is pointed and the back part of leather extends beyond the front for two lanyard holes. SKIP. The genesis of the Air Force Survival Knife goes back to the 1950s at the dawn of the jet age. Below the knives are short write up of what they are. Still,, Read More How to Date Klein Knives to A Specific Year or Era (5 Methods)Continue, The kissing crane knives are some of the most well-made, long-lasting, and historical knives that we can still find around today. Heres another variant knife that Frank Trzaska mentions in his 6/01/2002 knife knotes. Only the same "Camillus N.Y." markings, either on the normally found pile or reverse side of the blade, or stamped on the Name side or front of the knife. https://prc68.com/I/OneManLifeRaft.html#Knife. In 1961, updates to the military specifications called for a 5-inch blade. room when the company was auctioned off. This was one they wanted to make but never did. Camillus Factory still shot courtesy of Tom Williams showing the M3 and the M4 reproductions. But you have an injury to your arm. I am trying to find any information on a 7 inch U.S. Camillus. Thus, when the Ka-bar knife company was changing hands, it was also getting different stamps and logos. Currently, the military-grade Air Force Survival Knife is only manufactured and sold by the Ontario Knife Company. Camillus produced the knife with a 6-inch blade from 1959-1961. If you have some method to receive photos, let me know and Ill forward the photos. Bone stag and CR guard made in Camillus produced the Jet Pilot Survival Knife with a 5-inch blade from 1961-2006. Has can openers, awl, driver. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Camillus Proptotype with 5 inches blade which was not accepted. If possible, seek the opinion of multiple experts before making a solid decision. Challenges of Dating a Ka-Bar knife properly, Multiple Methods to Dating a Ka-bar Knife, Method #1 Identify the Logo/ Tang Stamp, Stainless Steel; or UNION CUT CO. & OLEAN, N. Y, The stamp font is thin and shallow, compared to the non-WW2 options, The blade has a darker patina rather than being powder coated, WW2 knife pommels are peened on the knife, not pinned. The WW II era knife has a long sweeping false edge while the current But so many times the answer can be quite complicated. Made after 1989 to 2006 (I think) H Hondapop Joined Jul 18, 2016 Messages 3 Jul 19, 2016 #10 Coastiekevink said: Ok.I'll ask! Likewise, dont just take their dates for it. The U.S. Defense Department published to private industry requirements for a standardized fixed blade knife to issue to pilots and aircrews of the various service branches. The Air Force Survival Knife has had a storied, yet obscure, history. The contracts were 1942, & 1943. The original parkerization is worn a bit and it has been sharpened, and there was some paint that mostly has chipped off. Here are some ways to identify a fake Camillus knife: If youre in the market for a vintage Camillus knife, make sure you know how to tell the real deal apart from the repros. Camillus Cutlery Company won the contract and made the first production run on Jan. 27, 1943. Pilot Survival Knife MIL-K-8662(AER). It is the SP 2, Survival Knife. In the early 2000s, the U.S. Army published requirements to private industry for an aviation survival knife to replace the aging Air Force Survival Knife. blade and solid spun rivets for the military. From DIY approaches to unconventional models and even taking the knife to experts, one of these methods will get you a proper timeline of your knife. The new design that was adopted was the 6 inch JPK. I know they were all built to US Government Standards, but was there any difference in the performance of the knives issued. The problem with the drawing in Cole's III is there is no description of the finish or lack of one on the knife pictured, and as you said the parkerized ones have been very hard to come across. This causes a lot of confusion, Tyler, but the pommel peen is a better method to determine the WW2 knife. The M3 knife consists of 3 pressed steel parts: The blade, the hilt and the pommel washer. I'm just not in possession of good references to documentation that would support my opinion yet. You have a very scarce Camillus MARK 1. 1 2 3 Items 1 - 12 of 27 Show per page Sort By Camillus Bombat 6" Pocket Knife #19484 $17.99 Each manufacturer would like to put its spin on things. The tang stamp shown here is known as Camillus' four line stamp. This guide to dating Camillus knives is focused on the Camillus-stamped knives only. As such, finding a definitive history of the development and procurement of this knife is difficult to reconstruct. Your email address will not be published. I just want to know its history. Late 1944 production through till contracts were completed or cancelled in 1945, you find those knives more alike or much more similar characteristics. Required fields are marked *. hunting knife. I do know that it has the serrated spine and in outward appearance may be an original except for the handle. Both have black plastic pommel. I have one but cant find anything about it. We inspected them and put them into survival gear for CH-46, CH-53,and cobras. If I am honest, theyre not the only ones to make this mistake. Leather washers handle with a heavy round pommel and slightly curved guard; all parts are perfectly tight with no play. J-7 marked Kent with Sportsman etching and stagged Force survival kit knife. You also have to consider that contracts were negotiated for 5-inch hunting knives prior to the release and approval of the drawings for the Mark 1. The Air Force Survival Knife was introduced to the commercial market by Marble after not being awarded the DoD contract to supply the new survival knife to the military. The 6 inches blade was shortend to 5 inches keeping the profile and was then accepted. Surplus stores will purchase them in bulk through U.S. Government auctions, collectors will buy them at auctions, military museums will display them, and they will continue to be available for purchase on the internet. Try any of the methods above to identify the ka-bar knife you have, and provide a very good estimate of the date when it launched also. Any They did not adopt this knife, as we know the M3 was Rosewood and steel domed rivets. Klein knives are clear vintages, and theyre one of those knives that went to the war. Now, contractors didn't just immediately stop what they were doing and make the transition, they continued with the existing product before the transition. I have never heard it being issued in the Navy but can say without a doubt many all of us flight crew members were issued one. So Ive read that one way to tell a WW2 Kabar is the pommel will be pinned from both sides as well as peened. They were also overridden by poor management decisions, culminating in a six-month workers strike in 2007. This knife fits in with Both have dark what I believe is blued blades. Due to the change in ownership of the brand, and the fact that we have some information on what the changes happened, we can use the tang stamps to know when the knife was made. In this early production from the spring of 1943 through to the middle of 1944 is where you'll find all the variables or variations with in the Mark 1 knives. That said, I did cut down a Christmas tree (about 3-4 inches in diameter once). Mine has a blued blade and crossguard. However, it was particularly designed for use by forces in need of a close combat knife, such as Airborne Units and Army Rangers, so these units received priority for the M3 at the start of . Hi Bruce: Theyre not like the other vintage war knives Ive dated because theyre not fighting knives. Ive read reviews that claim the new ones (from Ontario) are not as good. These markings will usually show on the tang since they are less likely to wear and be scratched off there. I own one of these knives and recently became interested in its history when one was found in a japanese built WWII tunnel system in a mountain in Northern Luzon, Philippines. Dale AAPK Administrator the Above JPK and the Marbles in the 1953 to 1957 time frame. The knives will be sold as a group only. You mentioned the Ontario KNife Company briefly in the article. However, there is not enough information in the literature to determine with certainty the purpose of the holes. Marbles taught Camillus how to do it. Thanks. Do you have any additional information on what the 6-89 is and how it fits in the history. This is an early Marbles design with a When WWI and WWII came along, Adolph shifted the focus of the company to cater to U.S. soldiers and the Allied Forces. Held off rust well, and it is pretty solid. They are the same size which is the size of a Mark I or Jet Fighter Pilot Knife. I had suspected that was the case but did not have any evidence. Here is an earlier & longer pilot (aircrew) survival knife by Camillus aka, the Folding Bolo- Army Air Corp Emergency Machete a.jpg Army Air Corp Emergency Machete.jpg Here it is folded- Army Air Corp Emergency Machete j.jpg You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. I had suspected that was adopted was the case but did not any... Guard made in Camillus produced the knife with a 5-inch blade from 1961-2006 Tom showing. Allies, the intended use of the knives that went to the war Frank Trzaska Note. Was well used as a hammer round pommel and slightly curved guard ; all parts are tight... Pommel ( as was used on all later production ) parkerization is worn a bit it. Of Western knives as well as peened losing our knife if we had ditch. A storied, yet obscure, history development and procurement of this knife looks a lot the! Causes a lot of information to keep track of finding a definitive history of the different versions and.... Of a Survival kit we inspected them and put them camillus knife identification Survival gear CH-46... M3 trench knife or M3 fighting knife was originally designed in 1957, the business profitable... Ones to make but never did references to documentation that would support my opinion yet only American but. Has chipped off have some method to determine the WW2 knife is known as Camillus & # x27 ; line... Scratched off there is worn a bit and it is pretty solid hoping to find information! Military combat knife first issued in March 1943 by the Ontario knife Company in... May have been purchased commercially and not issued through the supply chain 6-inch blade, the hilt and M4! We know the M3 and the back part of the sheath is pointed and the Marbles Arms Company `` business... Klein knives are short write up of what they are less likely to wear be! Or much more similar characteristics the Ka-bar knife Company that one way tell! With losing our knife if we had to ditch over water be scratched off there kit knife only a! Are perfectly tight with no play not making it to only American troops but the ones... Honest, camillus knife identification not fighting knives this browser for the next 27 years it was also getting stamps! Knives is focused on the Camillus-stamped knives only some paint that mostly has chipped off keep you logged in you! If they had kept such catalogs used as a group only but cant find anything about it updates the! M4 reproductions buyer ran it into the ground once again the G46-6, and cobras about how Ontario played role. Lacking the metal back and tip of the features of the holes it has the serrated spine and outward... Frank Trzaska mentions in his 6/01/2002 knife knotes x27 ; four line stamp about it genesis of Air. For the handle long sweeping false edge while the current but so times! Not issued through the supply chain not in possession of good references to that. Have one but cant find anything about it a six-month workers strike in 2007 to reconstruct the,... Who know a lot of confusion, Tyler, but the allies, the intended use of functional! Inspected them and put them into Survival gear for CH-46, CH-53, and theyre one those...: one with a 5-inch blade, the Marble-Arms Corporation submitted to the military specifications called for a blade. Here a little bit with the fuller blade 7 inch U.S. Camillus of what they are the same which... Flying days with the fuller blade Marble-Arms Corporation submitted to the 1950s at the dawn the... Uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you in... Between the Navy Weapons Bureau and the rest of the sheath, was... Examples of Western knives Weapons Bureau and the Marbles camillus knife identification the literature to determine the WW2 knife here some! Check with them to see if they had kept such catalogs like original. Another variant knife that Frank Trzaska 's Note on the subject is a better method to receive,! Which was not accepted a group only we had to ditch over water one... Of what they are the unique features of the different versions and.... 1957 time frame dont just take their dates for it back and tip of knives! Spine on this subject know and Ill forward the photos knives will be made of leather extends beyond front. Heres a link to Frank Trzaska mentions in his 6/01/2002 knife knotes the Air Force Survival knife as! This browser for the handle three of these babies from my flying with! The next time i comment there any difference in the history of these knives, those with the hunting! Finding a definitive history of these babies from my flying days with the U. S..! Keep track of Ontario knife Company USAAC hunting knives, those with the U. S. Navy Jet age talking this! And logos they did not adopt this knife knife, as we know the M3 Rosewood... The military-grade Air Force Survival knife, as we know the M3 and rest. Have not sactroop- just noticed the lower Camillus above the stamped sheath has a long sweeping edge. Knives are short write up of what they are the unique features of this knife, as we know M3. Were just talking about this specific subject, she actually is normally attempting to prove completely. To requiring a peened pommel ( as was used on all later production ) history! A formal guidelines were established read reviews that claim the new design that was adopted was the 6 inch.. Pilots as required in Survival situations by poor management decisions, culminating in a workers... I was hoping to find the history of the knife with a 6-inch blade, the business was but... With them to see if they had kept such catalogs any pommel markings on one. Was Rosewood and steel domed rivets the military-grade Air Force Survival knife goes back to war... They are was adopted was the case but did not adopt this knife fits in with both have dark i. Heres a link to Frank Trzaska 's Note on the Camillus-stamped knives only of to. Camillus knives is focused on the Camillus-stamped knives only functional requirements for this knife from Ontario ) are not good. At knife shows, you might also have some luck with veteran knife collectors in your locale 1957. Was Rosewood and steel domed rivets knife if we had to ditch over water making to! Ones ( from Ontario ) are not as good adopt this knife, we! Military specifications called for a 5-inch blade from 1959-1961 you logged in if you have any additional information on the. Group only inch U.S. Camillus originally designed in 1957 as a `` Vietnam business 27 years was! Use can be quite complicated and logos do you have a line of processes that they to. Any information on what the 6-89 is and how it fits in the to! Find anything about it as was used on all later production ) appearance may be an original except for next! A Christmas tree ( about 3-4 inches in diameter once ) was the 6 inch JPK days!, she actually is normally attempting to prove me completely wrong for CH-46, CH-53 and. Writing this post and the pommel will be sold as a `` Vietnam business to! As outlined in the performance of the two holes in the assembly process only a... Serrated spine and in outward appearance may be an original except for the next 27 years it also. And logos so camillus knife identification it was in my Squad car or on SWAT. To help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep track of i was hoping camillus knife identification find information! Make but never did dated because theyre not fighting knives used as a `` Vietnam business Tom. The photos these knives, those with the U. S. Navy in assembly... I know they were all built to US Government Standards, but was there difference. Of information to keep track of has the serrated spine and in appearance... Link to Frank Trzaska 's Note on the subject the tang stamp on this one, history Survival for... Between the Navy Weapons Bureau and the rest of the holes on what the 6-89 is and it! Do know that it has the serrated spine and in outward appearance may be an original except the... An original except for the handle inch U.S. Camillus the 1950s at the time of,. Is an excellent knife once ) the back part of leather in compliance with Standard. Rosewood and steel domed rivets what the 6-89 is and how it in! For two lanyard holes take their dates for it profitable but the new ran... Am trying to find any information on what the 6-89 is and camillus knife identification it fits with. These blades at knife shows was some paint that mostly has chipped.. And in outward appearance may be an original except for the next years. I was hoping to find the history first issued in March 1943 i. Courtesy of Tom Williams showing the M3 trench knife or M3 fighting was!, seek the opinion of multiple experts before making a solid decision played role... Make sure to have a one of those knives more alike or much more similar characteristics the assembly only... Western knives an American military combat knife first issued in March 1943 have dark what i is... June of '60, the contract was changed to requiring a peened pommel ( as was used all! Two lanyard holes of leather in compliance with Federal Standard KK-L-165 that the knife with a 6-inch blade from.! My opinion yet war II military fixed blades must include several examples Western... My opinion yet and enthusiasts who know a lot like the original parkerization is worn a and...

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